View Full Version : new skills-not fair
baljak22
29.03.2012, 19:34
hey all...
before few pach you give us mages new skill Magic missile,Frost wind and Chain of lighting whic is not wery strong skills.And after that you give us Wachman and
Singularyti, for me only wachman is good this 5 new skills...
DK gett to good skills now they can stunt you longer and they hawe biger dmg with this skills so in arena we mages dont hawe a chanse?
Who is good in math can callculate this statistic...skills of SW and DK
SW-magic missile causes 55% of our base dmg
DK-angry strike causes 75% fo base dmg
SW-frost nowa causes 125% of base dmg
DK-mighty wing swing causes 200% of base dmg
SW-fireball causes 85°of base dmg and enemis burn 5 second after that for 10% of base dmg
DK-mighty swing causes 150% of base dmg if rage is full can be used 5 times
SW-ice blast causes 70% of base dmg and reduce travel speed for 40% (3 second)
DK-smash causes 200& of base dmg and can bee used 5 times if rage is full
and 1 more mages skill Lighting strik causes 250% dmg if hit is direct nad can bee used multiple times like DK smash because we need waith 5-6 second that we can use it again
My opinion is that with a good combination of skill it is impossible to fight against them only if we use red esenc we can but it is too expensive...
if you make that lighting strike can bee used several times in a row that will be good and should increase fireball dmg
clientnumber9
29.03.2012, 19:44
There is a big difference in the fighting styles and capacities between the class, so I think your comparison is unfair. It seems the main point your missing is that the DK has to first charge up rage before he can use any of his skills, while mages are able to use them immediately. They also don't have any ranged attacks like the mage, so it can be very difficult to catch mages much less build up any kind of rage to use against them. I feel the skills were built for each class specifically, so comparing them isn't as straightforward as you tried to make it seem.
-naeblis420-
29.03.2012, 21:08
also a DK has way lower base damage.
fabr1921
29.03.2012, 23:40
you forgot about 250% damage skill and that knight has to load fury and stay to close range while mage can fire right away at long range....hmmm wonder why
ehhh our lighting strike is useless now...they took us stun from frost aoe skill...well they reduced it.Now its impossible to do any combo and hit player with lighting strike cause they all port away.They just keep ruining SW more and more with every incoming patches....they made now 2 of our best pvp skills useless and all that give us are some worthless skills.I think i will quit game till new class come out or something here get fixed im really disappointed what they do to mages and i regret i start playing with it anyway.Starting to think that DSO doesnt even test skills in pvp when they release it...
@saalle
Couldn't agree more. Since Frost Nova stun has vanished, lightning strike has "lost" much (would gather 50%) of its use, since you can't perform the freeze+lightning (with or without initial teleport) combo anymore. SWs in arena have to resort to teammates' (DKs, Rangers) stunning abilities to use lightning strike efficiently. In that sense, that has greatly deteriorated teamplay since you can't cooperate and be of much use to teammates to kill opponent. SWs have become the sitting duck of the arena, when stunned by Rangers bird bite and net or the Dks paralyse rush and kick on head. If SWs arena superiority was the motive for such thoughtless changes, would prefer to see an i.e reduction in dmg caused by SWs long range weapons and restoration of frost nova stunning ability to, say, 2 secs than this ridiculous situation we're experiencing right now. I, too, have lost much interest in game after all these.
LeftTheGreat - Heredur
Leftt i know what u mean but seems DSO doesnt.Skills are ruined and we got some worthless skills now.SW is weakest class now thats for sure.Now if u manage to strike some1 with lighting strike then that guy should quit game instantly....casting time for that skill is like1.5-2sec till it hits and for that time every1 can avoid it just with simple mouse-move.....and not to talking about jump skills that DK btw have 2!!!Frost nova that was usefull only for that frost nova-lighting strike combo lost its purpose now and become worthless too soo they could remove both of those skills from SW as much as i care.When we compare DK stun skills with SW stun skills well....DK with hes stun skills can take half of mage-book hp in that 1 combo wile SW stun skills barely can scratch a mob...low dmg with low stun soo DSO remove all those skills and leave us with with just 5 skills whatever for us...best SW skill is TELEPORT-skill...that says enough.......
MikeyMetro
30.03.2012, 15:26
Last night (U.S.) I decided to play a couple of 3v3 arenas with one of my DKs. (Taking a break from farming.) Note this is not one of my andered up chars. In fact this char does not have a sinlge gem slotted. In one match red team (mine) was 3 DKs, blue team was 3 SWs. All of the levels and gear seemed balanced overall. DKs won decisively. Just food for thought.
Luck be with ye,
Mikey,
Brighteyes, Tegan
i think nerfing the sws stuntime for thier skill was a bit harsh.maybe better to reduce the pvp damage dont by their 2 big hit spells by a little bit.i know they hit hard and bypass armor but now it seems by nerfing their 1 good stun they are at a disadvantage.and their new skills do seem a bit lackluster compared to the other 2 classes new skills.
just my opinion i dont play a sw but i do feel it is bad if they are now not balanced correctly in pvp
They've made a rotation, first nerfing the only decent stun move that ranger had (the bird), and now nerfing SWs best stun. I think things are fair between ranger and SW now, but DK has TOO MUCH STUN!! They have 3 stun moves, 2 of which are LONG RANGE and INSTANT, and have 10 SECOND recharge rather than 18-20 like SW and ranger stun.
The problem isn't that SWs are now useless, its that DKs are far too powerful now.
Also, SWs and Rangers have never been able to combo moves like DK can. A DK can keep you stunned so long that it's rediculous. I fought a DK today and every other second he was either rushing or ground-breaking me, not to mention the headbutt move.
Lets just hope that since they ruined rangers and mages best stun moves, they'll nerf DKs as well.
They've made a rotation, first nerfing the only decent stun move that ranger had (the bird), and now nerfing SWs best stun. I think things are fair between ranger and SW now, but DK has TOO MUCH STUN!! They have 3 stun moves, 2 of which are LONG RANGE and INSTANT, and have 10 SECOND recharge rather than 18-20 like SW and ranger stun.
The problem isn't that SWs are now useless, its that DKs are far too powerful now.
Also, SWs and Rangers have never been able to combo moves like DK can. A DK can keep you stunned so long that it's rediculous. I fought a DK today and every other second he was either rushing or ground-breaking me, not to mention the headbutt move.
Lets just hope that since they ruined rangers and mages best stun moves, they'll nerf DKs as well.
i will agree with the dk stuns as you said, i do feel they deserved the jump skill that they lacked for so long, but currently they do ahve a lot of stuns now and short cooldowns, and once they can get you on lockdown its not easy to escape the stuns and then also they can negate your armor ontop to do more damage.
next thing im expecting from DSO is to increase CD for mage teleport skill lol
next thing im expecting from DSO is to increase CD for mage teleport skill lol
:):):):):)
baljak22
31.03.2012, 01:38
you forgot about 250% damage skill and that knight has to load fury and stay to close range while mage can fire right away at long range....hmmm wonder why
yust tray all play with SW now and you will se I do not want to argue with someone who probably does not know what I talk about
fabr1921
02.04.2012, 13:52
the good sw on my server still own anyone, so it means maybe you need to play better?
knight has 3 stuns ? sure, maybe because they are MELEE range and this game u can't hit if other move with knight?
lol guys stop cry and learn to play from best SW who still win vs anyone in the arena.
the negate armor skill is the shorter range skill in the game, so you have to stun and then apply it, and if the other has an escape in cooldown is just going away.
also you are forgetting that most DK need to go in fury to kill?that thing has like 50 sec cooldown.
I feel like all SW who cry don't even have full legendary, or use book, because a mage full legend at lvl 40 has 2500 hp 2000 def 50% block 40% cirt and play usually vs ZERO def of f2p players who don't use diamonds.
u complain for skills of 0 def that last 3 sec and you play always vs ppl with 0 def with you looooooool
devs made a great job balancing, but you want easy win, because clearly anyone who rolled sws before patch was to win only pressing 2 buttons.
good work devs, cry less little mages XD
fabr1921 u say that DK have to come close to hit mage?Is that problem with 2 jump skills and 3 stuns?Do SW need to have legendary item to kill magic item DK?Thats not balance and unfortunately for u im pretty sure DSO will do something about this.
StabShootnloot
04.04.2012, 08:32
i think your arrogance is clouding your judgment our maybe your just not that smart. if you need ALL legendary equipment to compete with characters and creatures wearing magic or lower than how is that balanced?
Negating armor is great advatantage for mages. Rangers have to shoot through enemy armor, mages not - try kill enemy knight with ranger if knight has ove 80% armor and you will see how hard ranger is. And is only good that mages nova was nerfed because winning only by pressing two buttons with nova and lightning is noobish playing. No wonder that mages was winning all competitions and was leading on hall of fame, because it was too easy to win with mage with this combo. You cannot imagine how hard it can be win over 3 mages on oponent team. Now you are forced to think on arena. I know that it can be so hard to think during battle but just try :D
500 % beam given to sw's interestng
fabr1921
04.04.2012, 17:43
happy now? enogh cry
legendary mage lvl 40 now can 1 shot anyone.
DK has no fury anymore, can't kill anything because doesn't gain speed even with new skill.
the defensive skill last only 4 seconds.
yes u need to be all legendary to compete in arena at lvl 40, becasue almost anyone in lvl 40 arena is full legend -.-
now that DK is totally ruined and mage can go again 50-0 again they will be happy.
and once again fabr1921 :) yeah we got that skill but till we cast it u can use your invecible skill XD or just avoid it easy =)
fabr1921
05.04.2012, 02:53
cool and then ? we don't have fury anymore.
so after we tank or avoid it we can run in arena like idiots for 7 min scoring 1 kill or 2 if we get really lucky...
new skill for mage fine...but why ruin a DK taking away the feature skill day is ingame from day 1 ?
is like remove precision shot from hunter or light strike from mage.
FusionVortex
05.04.2012, 03:09
now that DK is totally ruined and mage can go again 50-0 again they will be happy.
lol calm down dude its not that dramatic. DKs still have war cry, rage jump, paralyzing onslaught, headbutt, and a bunch of high damaging attacks. Plus, if u play from a mage's perspective, its not all that ez to avoid a DK and still put damage on him. Sure u can shoot a fireball/ice blast at him once in like 10 seconds but he will heal from it in like 3 seconds. along with a ton of stuns, some range attacks, and high damaging attacks, the DK is now rly powerful, not to mention they have a ton of hp and armor. Theres a reason why ppl never attempt to kill the high lvl DKs in arena. Even if AFK it would take quite a while for a mage to kill a nicely armored DK.
And don't talk about "destruction" like it's just an automatic KO if u haven't seen it. You'd have to be stunned by 3 consecutive moves or just a careless player to be hit by something so predictable. And plus, atm theres a bug that lowers the damage by a lot, so right now its more like 200%-400% instead of 500%
fabr1921
05.04.2012, 03:26
vortex from other post I see yuo are lvl 27 or something you don't even know what endgame pvp is...please...
and I do play from SW prospective, I have a 27 SW too infact and I can own any DK on that lvl with just blue equips, so there's something wrong with your equip or you are not using blue essence to pvp.
u just keep saying to every1 how there is something wrong with them or charters ROFL XD.There is nothing wrong with hem and hes right.Till now when SWs complain DKs called us crybabies cause of entire SW skill build messed up and now u Dks cries for 1 skill.Interesting .....if this game stays end game pvp i quiting it and wait for advertising hope Big Point wont bring us end pvp there too...
ahhhh sorry Dward XD..I just didnt know that talking about other BigPoint games are not aloved here.Anyway every1 will know for game when its out BigPoint gona make sure for that.Anyway im grateful for warning.
fabr1921
05.04.2012, 13:56
SW skills were not messed up, they took out an unavoidable combo, but you still play vs ppl with 0 def vs you.
the old fury was not unavoidable, as it's melee and ppl can run away.
I don't say to anyone there's something wrong, I say to you and vortex.
vortex says that he is bad in pvp, I have a lvl 27 mage and can own anyone, he is near that lvl and says he is bad.
you can't kill fast a lvl 25 mage with a 36, I can one shot them with a 27.
that's why I think there's something wrong, maybe equips or no essence.
I do have a point because I can do what you can't.
also I was sure you were lvl 35 or 36 with bad equip and I guessed...why? becasue at that lvl I felt the same, is not DK or SW or RA is that lvl where is not worth make good equips but ppl in the higher range have lvl 40 legend and ppl in 28-29 have ext or legend equips as well to farm pvp, you are in the middle and feel weak.
been there but it's not class related.
also it's upsetting to talk about something and ppl who don't know come talk, sorry.
we are talking about balance in endgame, because like or not, games are going to be balanced in late stages, not in early.
nor you or him are in late stage, but you want to assume about it. sorry, with respect, but you don't know what you are talking about.
Lol u are right about my gear.I have seriously bad gear but that doesnt change a thing cause that lvl 25 guy probably had all magic items.If i have full legendary and he too still i whouldnt be able to kill him with 1 hit.U are right also about that at this lvl its not worth of wasting Kots's which is reason i wait for lvl 40 and u probably right that game is balanced on lvl 40 but thats not right thing to do.When new players start reading forums before start playing game u think any1 will take SW with this end game balance?Have a pain lvling before get lvl 40.Only hardcore mages will play with it.Classes should have same pvp and pve possibilities from start thats all im saying.Its not right that DK own us before we get 40 cause many frustrated people will just quit game cause of that.But still wont talk about this anymore cause game is still in beta and talent system can change many things.I think skills wont be made to final point for many months from now and it may be they polish and complete skills right before game goes live.I just dislike when Dk players come talking things they dont know about SW.If they play with DK they should think about Dks skills only and not come on SW topic talking how SW players cries and how we OP from mare purpose to deceive developers to not improve Sw soo they can own us in arena and world pvp.
fabr1921
06.04.2012, 01:48
same I won't talk anymore, my advise is get the best gear to judge :)
I respect that you don't like balance only at lvl 40, but devs usually do that. :p
also another advise, ask for buffs for your class, not nerf the others, way to ruin games.
same I won't talk anymore, my advise is get the best gear to judge :)
I respect that you don't like balance only at lvl 40, but devs usually do that. :p
also another advise, ask for buffs for your class, not nerf the others, way to ruin games.
i asked for buffs soo many times XD.I said that SW need buff and its only class that doesnt have it.Stupid usilles magic missile should be raplaced for buff.
fabr1921
06.04.2012, 02:16
yes but you, as other mage, say DK are to strong all the time...
but you don't give arguments...you say too much stuns but....you know that without stuns DK can't hit right ?
Why in your opinion DK are too strong still a mistery, have you even tried one?
takes 2 days to get to lvl 20-25 and try some pvp, you will see how "overpowered" it is if you try.
in the other topic u say you will be onlu ext and not legend on lvl 40, you don't know what means work hard to get all wasted.
but I think this proves once again I was right, you never tried to work hard.
you say dk were too powerful and you yet have to make a full ext set.man....:(
-Blueberry-
06.04.2012, 09:16
yes but you, as other mage, say DK are to strong all the time...
but you don't give arguments...you say too much stuns but....you know that without stuns DK can't hit right ?
Why in your opinion DK are too strong still a mistery, have you even tried one?
takes 2 days to get to lvl 20-25 and try some pvp, you will see how "overpowered" it is if you try.
in the other topic u say you will be onlu ext and not legend on lvl 40, you don't know what means work hard to get all wasted.
but I think this proves once again I was right, you never tried to work hard.
you say dk were too powerful and you yet have to make a full ext set.man....:(
Actually, interestingly enough, me and my 2 guildmates did some testing last night.
2x Lvl 40 SW's, and 1 x Lvl 40 DW - all quite well geared.
SW's ranked 26th+35th in rankings, and DW ranked 78th in rankings - he doesn't do so much arena, but likes doing bosses.
It is interesting, because the DW has been very depressed, and angry about the state of DW's for the last few weeks. He was close to quitting for a bit, then this patch came out, that completely broke him. I logged in last night, expecting him to not be there.
However, I log in, and he's there, and he whispers, "come here, got some stuff to test".
So I go there, and basically he has gone full defensive mode and he wants to test if we can kill him.
Fact of the matter is, I cannot kill him full stop, using blue essence, I run out of mana, before I have even 10% damaged him. So we call in another SW. 2xSW's in green cannot kill him. Then we do 2xSW's using blue essence. It takes a long long time to finally kill him, and when we do kill him, he blames a jumping glitch that stopped him getting away, ie he didn't feel we should have been able to kill him. He now says, only 3 mages (maxed out red essence mages), and a couple of DW's on the server can kill him.
So then we do some fights. Using green essence, he kills me after 5 minutes, and the other SW in 1v1, so in 1v1, using green, he is untouchable to an SW. Using blue, he has the damage output, and can kill us both in 2 minutes.
He was upset, because he was a damage dealing DW, and clearly has lost that ability.
He cannot 3 shot SW's anymore like many DW's were doing, whilst being invincible.
He is now invincible, but takes a long time for him to kill.
Overall, he is a lot happier that he has re-found a role for himself, and knows he can certainly tank very well now. He probably still hopes for a positive tweak, and poorly geared or non cash DW's possibly still need a little something.
Adding to this, looking at todays arena rankings, Dani the (extremely well geared) DW is completely clear with 24k honour posted for the day so far. So maybe it is not so bad.
.I have reasons to say why Dks are OP and not cause of gear.THey do have too much stuns.U say that they need stun too hit but as much as that SW need range too kill its range class afterall but giving DK 2 jumping skills against SW 1 removes SW range from option (thats why u see SWs doing 1vs1 close combat fight vs DK) they dont even try to run away and hit from distance anymore.Now all pvp is spaming skills 1vs1 after Dk gets close to SW and SW like mage class with no armor or health dont stand a chanse there.For a distance its hard to hit any1 with decant spells,when they come close to u no point of running anymore.Armor doesnt have anything with this.As in other games DK like warrior class should have armor advantage wile mage have distance advantage.Giving DK 2 jump skills they cause SW to lose that and 1vs1 close combat spaming skill SW will never win.Stop blame armor on this lol.Its not my armor fault that i cant hit any1 with decant spell unless they hiting some1alse and not notice me casting spell.Its not they legendary gear reason that they can just jumping around or running around me making me vary hard able to hit even with frost ball just to lend some hit.With no combo we lost all our best spells.This doesnt have anything with armor.I dont making this point cause i cant kill any1 in arena,i know that fact before even enter arena cause im aware of my gear.But difficulty about hiting players with decant spells and with other hand easy approach to mage with 2 jump skills-3stuns give already balance status about strongest class.Also i saw Sws lvl 40 get wipe out in arena from Dks that they just can scratch a HP.Now now1 even atack DK in arena.THey all go for SW or Ranger even if DK staying in 1 place like afk.Dont blame now those lvl 40 Sws too...Huge HP,huge armor, 2 Jump skills - 3 stuns vs SW range that cant even work anymore 0.o.How does this makes right balance.ANd Dks should stop complain about no able to resist Sw spells.They lack in ressistence and we lack in armor and hp.Its all about skills and gear.DK get good gear and he owns.Mage get new gear and still has nothing :(
fabr1921
06.04.2012, 14:15
Then do a DK and try youself.
We are reduce as a meat shield with new skills, can't die can't kill.
Gere honestly you are decent but you aren't one of the best SWs, especially equip wise, out in PvP server, you do low damage and die easily.nothing personal but it's true.
Dani lol...that guy has like 50% crit and crits for 1200, he has almost 3000 armor and 5000 hp sure nice example, take one of the best DK and play vs normal SW what do you espect ?
Dani pwns me too in PvP and I have 4200 hp and 2300 armor and I'm a DK, he can kill me in 4 hits and I crit on him for like 400...so it's not SW or DK it's just him that is too strong.
Is like you say play vs Lamuerte, he will 1 shot you always and you can't do anything, and he is SW.
Man I love how SW always try to make look DK too strong with non sense examples.
Saalle I'm done with you, you keep saying equip doesn't matter, but it's 80% strenght of the char in this game, if you can't understand this there's no point kepp talking with you.
-Blueberry-
06.04.2012, 16:02
Then do a DK and try youself.
We are reduce as a meat shield with new skills, can't die can't kill.
Gere honestly you are decent but you aren't one of the best SWs, especially equip wise, out in PvP server, you do low damage and die easily.nothing personal but it's true.
Dani lol...that guy has like 50% crit and crits for 1200, he has almost 3000 armor and 5000 hp sure nice example, take one of the best DK and play vs normal SW what do you espect ?
Dani pwns me too in PvP and I have 4200 hp and 2300 armor and I'm a DK, he can kill me in 4 hits and I crit on him for like 400...so it's not SW or DK it's just him that is too strong.
Is like you say play vs Lamuerte, he will 1 shot you always and you can't do anything, and he is SW.
Man I love how SW always try to make look DK too strong with non sense examples.
Saalle I'm done with you, you keep saying equip doesn't matter, but it's 80% strenght of the char in this game, if you can't understand this there's no point kepp talking with you.
I chose a strong example with Dani, yes I agree, however that was only the very final line of what I wrote. I was just trying to point out, that at the top level, I'm still seeing the best DW's dominate. These are the players I play everyday, I only use the examples I am used to fighting against.
The rest of what I wrote, was more about normal players, using normal gear, that was the point of it. Put equally geared SW's v an equally geared DW, lvl 40, almost full legendary, not many gems, little or no andermant spent - it was about testing equal characters.
You are correct about what you wrote about me.
I've never bought any andermant, I'm not half as well geared as many.
However, it does focus my playing technique, and I'm personally happy with my skill levels.
I could easily buy andermant, full gem up, and be as good as the best red essence mages, Quite honestly, I'd get bored if I did that, and just 1 shot everyone I saw for 5 months in arena. Like Mikey said once, players start avoiding you, you dry up the entire arena queue. No-one avoids me, I get great fights all the time, and win almost 50% of them. Which when you consider my opposition, is very good.
Out of interest, which character do you play?
I saw a Fab in arena once, about a month ago, lvl 32ish DK?
I have went to arena to test how SW is strong against other players.I didnt test dmg i tested accuracy and speed soo here it is.I was agaisnt Dk that was at the edge of screen coming after me.ME-Sw(wand+book) manage to hit him 4 times before he come in range where he can strike me soo thats it.SW can max hit player 4 times with frost ball btw(means slowing him all the time)before he reach us.Is there any Sw that can kill DK with same gear with 4 frost ball hits?I dont think soo...now when we take as option that he could jsut charge on me or jump what then?Im not talking about SW spell power which depends from gear im talking about ability to hit some1.Soo what when he come to us can SW run?NO he cant.Its like they gived DK 2 teleport skills against SW 1.Lets also take as example that DK after charge have atleast 1 free hit to SW wile he is stuned.Does SW have free hit?NO he doesnt.Only free hit he can get from frost nova+fireball stun but since no SW use Frost nova anymore we depend from our skills to atack frim distance.It can be done 4 times and when DK come near thats it.U can only run but he will fallow,u can port but he will follow with charge or jump.And when we talk about new skills i would just add that our new "destruction" sometimes misses!.Even if u aim properly that spell just misses by itself going right or left from target where we aim.Our chanses to hit any1 with that are like.Well if guy is afk or distracted thats all.I will also ad again that Sw cant have number of skills like DK or ranger can cause of mana pots.We need to give up from 1 skill or like me from HP pots atall.Ranger is most balanced class here.DK is OP and SW UP.I said enought and im done with this.!
Yeah, DKs have WAAAAAAAY too much stun. Since they nerfed the stun on SW nova and Ranger Net, DKs have twice the stun as anyone.
SW: Nova with 1.25s stun 20s recharge, Frost Wind with 1.5s stun 20s recharge.
TOTAL STUN: 2.75s every 20 seconds.
Ranger: Bird and Net with 2.0s each, Bird 20s recharge and Net 15s recharge
TOTAL STUN: 4.0s every 20 seconds.
Now...
DK: Rush with 2.0s stun and 10s:eek: recharge. Groundbreaker with 2.0s stun and 10s recharge:eek:. Also the Iron Brow with 1.5s stun every 10-12 seconds.
TOTAL STUN: 11.0s EVERY 20 SECONDS!!!
DKs have ALMOST 3x the stun of any other class, and that is just WRONG. Their stun moves should have a 20s recharge like all the other classes' good stunning skills.
Rant over...:cool:
u_must_be_new
08.04.2012, 04:50
Yeah, DKs have WAAAAAAAY too much stun. Since they nerfed the stun on SW nova and Ranger Net, DKs have twice the stun as anyone.
SW: Nova with 1.25s stun 20s recharge, Frost Wind with 1.5s stun 20s recharge.
TOTAL STUN: 2.75s every 20 seconds.
Ranger: Bird and Net with 2.0s each, Bird 20s recharge and Net 15s recharge
TOTAL STUN: 4.0s every 20 seconds.
Now...
DK: Rush with 2.0s stun and 10s:eek: recharge. Groundbreaker with 2.0s stun and 10s recharge:eek:. Also the Iron Brow with 1.5s stun every 10-12 seconds.
TOTAL STUN: 11.0s EVERY 20 SECONDS!!!
DKs have ALMOST 3x the stun of any other class, and that is just WRONG. Their stun moves should have a 20s recharge like all the other classes' good stunning skills.
Rant over...:cool:
*EDIT*
DK can only attack when the target is stunned or not moving.
Since you propose that DK's stuns be nerfed so they are the same as other classes, how about we nerf mage and ranger so that they can only attack when the target is not moving or stunned? That's right, no more "leading the target" or shooting projectiles if the target is in motion. I think that will even the playing field and lots of rangers/mages will come crying.
If I get an infraction for *EDIT*; I have no regrets, it's totally worth it.
In response to salle, get 40 first, then get some pieces of decent equipment / essence, then (if you still feel it's necessary) come here and rant. If you can't kill someone 10 levels lower than you, especially a SW; then chances are, no matter what class you face around your level range, you'll still die and think they are overpowered. I wonder, when a lvl 40 mage your level kills you, do you also go and complain that mages are overpowered?
The way I see it, is that if you die to a DK after the recent nerf to rage scream, then you deserve to die. One of DK's major offensive capabilities (probably the most important one) was removed, and if they still can kill you, that means they are either way better geared than you or is a better player or both. In any case, if they killed you, you deserve it.
Ok u_must_be_new u say that DK need to have target stun in place to hit?Did u ever played SW to talk about diffrences?Do u actually know how hard is to hit moving target with SW.U clearly dont.Lightng Strike,Destruction have like 1% chase to hit some1.Skills with casting time around 1.5 sec is easy to hit?It can be avoid easy with simple mouse move.Soo out best skills are worthless.Soo we was supposed to kill with fireballs and frostballs wile other skills servers for nothing.?Ahhhhhh i wont boder with people like u anymore.Im glad what they done to DK cause of people like u that was calling SWs crybabies and now u finally feel like we do.STill Dks cries for 1 skill that is still suits good to charter wile Ranger gets lame close combat skill and SW skill that atack with physical atack with long time casting time and chanses to miss by itselff! even if u aim correctly.When does SW have time to cast that skill on DK 1vs1 and manage to hit him?Its impossible soo how to be more specific then useless - skill with no use in pvp.I wont boder anymore.As soon as new class come out i will most likely play it soo dont care for SW or DK atall anymore.Im done with this topic.
But getting away from pvp, I play a SW, currently lvl31 and really not enjoying it. It has been a struggle since lvl29. It took ages to level up so that I could pick up a few quests and I am dying sooo easily. I spend a fortune buying essence and mana runs out in seconds and I still die before I get more than a few yards away from the portal. Unless SW have DKs to hold the mobs in place we are seriously soft targets. And I know I'm not the greatest player, but I play a ranger too - a few levels below and I can kill the monsters in a fraction of the shots a SW takes, so less essence and concentration rebuilds quickly so no need to carry a gallon of mana.
Just comparing the gold and Andermat reserves that the SW has and the Ranger has tells it all really. I have to go out on lower levels with no essence to try and rebuild my purse as SW. As Ranger, I have plenty.
I will ignore the troll who responded to my last post, because I know that he is someone who goes around trying to make people angry. Why he hasn't been banned yet I don't know.
Now, DKs DO NEED good stun because they have to catch people and use melee rather than ranged attacks. However, 11s of stun compared to 6s for ranger (recalculated) and 3s (rounded) for mage is a little too much. The problem isn't the skills, it's the recharge time on the Rush and Groundbreaker (10s). If the recharge time were to be increased, it would balance things out. DKs needed the stun when they couldn't catch people, but with the Rage Jump, they don't have that problem anymore. I play all 3 classes, and I know for a fact that DKs are now the lords of PvP. Their near-invincibility and stun power is simply unmatched by either SW or Ranger.
The other possibility is to decrease the recharge time on mage and ranger stun skills. 10s for net and 12s for bird, and 10s for frost nova and frost wind would balance things out. Then EVERYONE would have too much stun. Imagine being chased by a bird every 10 seconds; wouldn't THAT be fun?(sarcasm) That's how it is for anyone fighting a DK now. The jump-rush combo is fine, but adding the headbutt-groundbreaker in the mix is too much. A DK has always been able to combo better than anyone else, and they can combo stuns to keep an enemy down for a long time. It's just unbalanced.
fabr1921
09.04.2012, 16:50
...
I won't say my name ingame because I want to feel free to talk as much as I want on forum without being linked on game char.
But no I'm no Fab, I'm 40 and I do have full legend like most in PvP server.
What I mean to say is that I know you play good, but you still can't judge well until you don't max out.
many times we play togheter, I don't buy ader either and you went 0-9 in the same match i went 5-0 for example.
So ofcourse you can't compare with Dani.
The example is just bad, he uses violet or red essences in arena, he has elemental defense bought with diamonds, fight a normal DK with 3 mages and he can't even move.
fight full legend dk and he will still have 0 def.
equip is still much more important then skills.
f2p vs f2p, DK is always disadvantaged vs ranged and vs mage. ranger has more atk, ranged and almost same armor and hp, mage is ranged and have 0 def vs them.
i farm a month for gems and i have 100 resist now, wow 6% less damage...
I will ignore the troll who responded to my last post, because I know that he is someone who goes around trying to make people angry. Why he hasn't been banned yet I don't know.
Now, DKs DO NEED good stun because they have to catch people and use melee rather than ranged attacks. However, 11s of stun compared to 6s for ranger (recalculated) and 3s (rounded) for mage is a little too much. The problem isn't the skills, it's the recharge time on the Rush and Groundbreaker (10s). If the recharge time were to be increased, it would balance things out. DKs needed the stun when they couldn't catch people, but with the Rage Jump, they don't have that problem anymore. I play all 3 classes, and I know for a fact that DKs are now the lords of PvP. Their near-invincibility and stun power is simply unmatched by either SW or Ranger.
The other possibility is to decrease the recharge time on mage and ranger stun skills. 10s for net and 12s for bird, and 10s for frost nova and frost wind would balance things out. Then EVERYONE would have too much stun. Imagine being chased by a bird every 10 seconds; wouldn't THAT be fun?(sarcasm) That's how it is for anyone fighting a DK now. The jump-rush combo is fine, but adding the headbutt-groundbreaker in the mix is too much. A DK has always been able to combo better than anyone else, and they can combo stuns to keep an enemy down for a long time. It's just unbalanced.
dude it's easy
1) DK can hit only when char is stun.
2)cooldowns need to make Dk able to hit.
3) out of 20 secs, DK stuns for 5,5 it means that 25% of the time we hit, other 75% of the time we run like idiots after ppl, and can't hit.remember that stuns that really matter are those followed after headbutt, when u have decent equips a DK will hit you for 100 max and 200 on crit if he is very good and uses blue essence without headbutt. p2p I don't care, anyone wins if p2p.
fireball that is base attack in pvp does on a f2p knight 250 usually and 500 crit if you use blue essences and you are geared.
what is unbalanced I don't understand.
most mages I hear here are not even lvl 40 and have bad equips.
is it that hard? max out, fight vs f2p if you are f2p, and then come back in the case.
but you won't, with blue essence you can do 500 with crit on fireball, who doesn't need any stun to land...
you will kill most mages in 4 shots or 3.
most ranger in 5-6.
with your basic, ranged, low cost, easy to aim attack !
and well for dk you just need to cast a tempest and light strike, then spam some fireball, if he hasn't pay for diamonds the light strike will crit for 1000+ once you get good damage equips.
If you aren't good enough to land it yourself, you can just wait another to stun.
while to do 800 on you a f2p DK has to loady fury, stun you, time headbut well when you don't have tele, use other fury that he have to load, hope for a crit, and has only 2 hits before you run away, and can do this once every 12 sec at melee range... I dunno what you talk about really.
If you really played DK you would know what I am talking about, it's clear you don't.
-Blueberry-
09.04.2012, 19:03
I won't say my name ingame because I want to feel free to talk as much as I want on forum without being linked on game char.
But no I'm no Fab, I'm 40 and I do have full legend like most in PvP server.
What I mean to say is that I know you play good, but you still can't judge well until you don't max out.
many times we play togheter, I don't buy ader either and you went 0-9 in the same match i went 5-0 for example.
So ofcourse you can't compare with Dani.
The example is just bad, he uses violet or red essences in arena, he has elemental defense bought with diamonds, fight a normal DK with 3 mages and he can't even move.
fight full legend dk and he will still have 0 def.
equip is still much more important then skills.
f2p vs f2p, DK is always disadvantaged vs ranged and vs mage. ranger has more atk, ranged and almost same armor and hp, mage is ranged and have 0 def vs them.
i farm a month for gems and i have 100 resist now, wow 6% less damage...
Hi Fab,
Ok so I don't know who you are, yet I play in arena with you sometimes, and did worse than you one. I can go with that.
Can I just say a few thoughts? I won't compare with Dani, I'll compare with you. I've probably played for longer, and put more effort into my character, than you have into yours. Lets assume we play in a similar skillful way on our respective characters.
At the moment, I've now played a lot of DW's, and quite frankly they are dominating again in arena, they cannot be killed, and are beating me easily 1v1, or in most combinations due to the fact they simply cannot be killed.
So the 2 of us, have not paid for our characters, you have 100 resist, I have a bit more, 150, 8.79%, I've also been farming for those resist gems. (I get taken apart by red mages, and red DK's, even more than you do, as you saw in the arena game).
Whilst I may not have paid, I have put a huge amount of time into my character, and worked hard. This weekend, I have farmed 2k ander, and 1.5k COT. I've done less arena, farmed 10 stacks of Blue, and used them all in about 10 Khalys.
And not only am I being beaten by all the pay to play guys, I'm being beaten by free to play DK's like yourself. You see, I am the bona fide, 100% measure of what a Free to Play SW looks like. When you compare like with like (me v you), you see you are stronger. When DK's and SW's max out, DK's are still much stronger.
You go on about the negatives of a DK, yet all I'm seeing currently, is how strong they are, from every DK playing. It's wierd, they had some sort of nerf, yet they've all adapted (probably including you) and they are all stronger than ever. The DK in my guild, is stronger than ever, and whilst he is often very negative about DK's, has been actually happy since the patch. The testing we did, confirmed just how unkillable they are, and it's not just him, it's all of them. You cannot want more offensive power on top of this, surely? Quite frankly, I think you need a nerf, to make you killable. I rarely see DK's die. I'd happily allow you to have more offensive power, to be able to kill me in 1-3 shots, If I could do the same to you? Instead of the 20-30 shots it takes currently, which in pvp conditions is almost impossible.
So I'm saying, I would happily trade giving you more killing power, if you would trade that for being (much) more killable.
So ofcourse you can't compare with Dani.
The example is just bad, he uses violet or red essences in arena, he has elemental defense bought with diamonds, fight a normal DK with 3 mages and he can't even move.
fight full legend dk and he will still have 0 def.
equip is still much more important then skills.
f2p vs f2p, DK is always disadvantaged vs ranged and vs mage. ranger has more atk, ranged and almost same armor and hp, mage is ranged and have 0 def vs them.
i farm a month for gems and i have 100 resist now, wow 6% less damage...
If you really played DK you would know what I am talking about, it's clear you don't.
Thank you for an HONEST and non-trolling response. I would like to apologize, then, because I have actually never fought a non-wallet warrior DK. Everyone at my level uses reds and is full legendary/cash shop, so as a free player, I can't really compare to anyone. I've noticed that DKs own the hardest when using reds tho.
Hi Fab,
At the moment, I've now played a lot of DW's, and quite frankly they are dominating again in arena, they cannot be killed, and are beating me easily 1v1, or in most combinations due to the fact they simply cannot be killed.
And not only am I being beaten by all the pay to play guys, I'm being beaten by free to play DK's like yourself. You see, I am the bona fide, 100% measure of what a Free to Play SW looks like. When you compare like with like (me v you), you see you are stronger. When DK's and SW's max out, DK's are still much stronger.
The testing we did, confirmed just how unkillable they are, and it's not just him, it's all of them. You cannot want more offensive power on top of this, surely? Quite frankly, I think you need a nerf, to make you killable. I rarely see DK's die. I'd happily allow you to have more offensive power, to be able to kill me in 1-3 shots, If I could do the same to you? Instead of the 20-30 shots it takes currently, which in pvp conditions is almost impossible.
So I'm saying, I would happily trade giving you more killing power, if you would trade that for being (much) more killable.
That's my problem with DKs. They just don't die, and yet they still have the ability to kill people easily (granted not as easily as mage or ranger). They are, for all intents and purposes, invincible.
fabr1921
10.04.2012, 03:08
I answer you both.
First of all the biggest nerf was in PvE.
It's just unfair how big it is.
Attack power, so killing times is decreased around 70% calculating times.
I test many times now because I used to go with 5 DK groups.
When all use blues kill times are 70% more, since boss is static target we can assume a nerf of same amount.
Now ok we could tank and damage at same time too much, but 70%??
You don't see the nerf because the banner skill is useless, so we don't even use it in PvP.
We are very killable with teamplay, ofc it's true that is very hard to kill us 1vs1, is also true that is easy to run away, especially in 3vs3 matches.
So we don't get killed and don't kill...the point is it's booooooring.ofc I talk about f2p DK, the p2p will just 2 shot, at most 3 shot, any non DK, but that's good they are paying for our game.
I would sure trade more deaths for more kills.
A simple solution would be old fury back, same effects, but while in fury DK gets 0 def and magic def (ofc should have same cooldown as new defensive skills and share cooldowns).
So PvE : we get damage back but we can't damage and tank at same time.
PvP : we can do a lot of damage in that 6 seconds, but at the same time we can be killed in few shots at the same time, double edge weapon.
I still think that f2p, SW and RA are superior when full legend, for sure they are superior in fun that DK doesn't have anymore.
ofc with red essence DK is the best if he has magic def too and a lot of HP items to reach about 5k hp.
but without mage is still stronger.3k crits on light strike, and 1,5 on fireballs on no mdef chars...the new skill helps but lasts 4 secs.
also yes is true that DK always stuns but it's too much needed, if the can make that DK can attack while run and still hit then they could reduce stuns, but as it is it's they only way to atk someone.
All in all, as now DK became SO boring, and we have 4 useless skills...that's too much.
With skill tree there will be no costumization either cos as I said anyone will trow away same skills since it's clear 4 of them are no use.
I agree with bringing back the old Scream of Rage. I admit that in PvE DKs are severely crippled without that move. I also like your idea of the scream lowering defense for added attack power. Really, though, I've done some testing here, and the results:
SW vs DK: balanced because of the SWs ability to circumvent armor.
DK vs DK: balanced (what did you expect?):p
Ranger vs DK: Weighted toward the knight ONLY because ranger has no way to penetrate armor.
I admit now that I was wrong in saying DKs have too much stun. They have just enough, and are more balanced than I thought. Rangers need a bit of a boost against them though, probably a way to penetrate armor. Perhaps the trap (currently useless in PvP) could do that? SWs with the new Destruction skill are just fine against knights.
Red essence-using DKs still own everything though. That's an undeniable fact.
fabr1921
10.04.2012, 03:49
nope DK vs RA full legend and free is still RA advantage.
I see there's much missconception about RA because many don't consider it with final equips.
Once you find Herold bow, you have 2h weapons equivalent of DK and SW, but have shield too ! also herold bow has 250 crit ! is like DK can wear herold mace and shield or SW herold wand and orb !!
it's easy to bring it to at least 1 attack speed even f2p, 2,5% speed gems are fairly easy to make farming.
so they use always 2h weapon, if you give break def too they will 2 shot DK and always 1 shot mages.
I have 2000+ def, depends on what I use, and best rangers crit me 1k on blue essence, 2k on pink and 3k on red, at same time can block and are ranged.
they get almost 4000 hp and 1500+ def !!!
Remember Herold bow, 114-146 dmg, +250 crit, duria sword has 43-64 base !!! and you need it with speed so it stays like that.
RA is the best class f2p by far once maxed.
example with NO essence when you face a bad team, they could do nothing so they just ran away :
http://img13.imagefra.me/i54a/favd_d5b_u0.jpg (http://i.imagefra.me/728j381m)
gets to make all kill, just needs to time last shot and hit for 1000+, while DK does the stun and chasing job he just stand there and kills
Is that 1000+ with red ess? I hit 200-300 CRIT with marked prec arrows on DKs with my ranger. My SW can do enough damage to kill them, but my ranger cannot.
fabr1921
10.04.2012, 14:49
nope best ranger can do that on blues.
do you have the herold bow and good +damage equips?
remember herold bow almost triples normal attack of bows and adds 250 crit.
base attack is around 150, with good damage equips you can add 150 more.
300 with blue becomes 600, with mark 1200 with blue essence 2400, most DK have 2000+ def that is like 55%-60% reduction max, so 1200-1000 crits.
ofc you can't espect to crit that good without working hard a bit, but belive me, many RA can.
and some with gems or lucky rolls add even more, like 200+, AND have a shield.and I still see RA complaining...
best ranger that use red crit me for 3k just for your info, lolz.
Ok then! Thanks for proving me wrong, Fabr. I do not have Herald's Battle Bow yet, so I'll try to get it and then see what happens. I do, however, have good equipment and damage boosts.
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