Dear forum reader!

If you want to get actively involved in the Forum and participate in the discussions, or want to start your own thread or topic, you will have to log into the game first. We are looking forward to your next visit in our Forum! Please be sure to register if you do not own a game account. CLICK HERE
Go Back   Battlestar Galactica Online > Battlestar Galactica Online - Game > Game Discussion Forum
FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08.04.2013, 06:04   #1
Deviltron1
Old Hand
 
Join Date: 17.06.2012
Posts: 596
Default A Discussion on "Avoidance" an "Accuracy" Mechanics

There are a lot of opinions on "Avoidance" and it's counterpart "Accuracy" but there hasn't been many facts presented about the mechanics of these very controversial components of game dynamics.

For this discussion we'll baseline the stats for the merit multi-roles because they should in theory represent the average ship in their class.

STRIKES

Base Avoidance = 510
Level 1 RCS = 15

Level 10 RCS = 30

Level 15 RCS = 36
(or 7.05% of Base Avoidance)

+10% Skill Bonus

+33% Buff Bonus (lvl 15)

3 Duct Max Avoidance = [510 + (3 x 36)] x 1.43 = 883.74

5 Duct Max Avoidance =
[510 + (5 x 36)] x 1.43 = 986.7

Base Accuracy =
400
+10% for maxed marksman skill
+25% for "D" series Accuracy Ammo

400 x 1.35 = Max Accuracy


Max Accuracy = 540
__________________________________________________ _________________

ESCORTS

Base Avoidance = 250
Level 1 RCS = 17.50

Level 10 RCS = 35

Level 15 RCS = 42
(or 16.8% of Base Avoidance)

+10% Skill Bonus

+16.5% Buff Bonus (lvl 15)

3 Duct Max Avoidance = [250 + (3 x 42)] x 1.265 = 475.64

5 Duct Max Avoidance =
[265 + (5 x 42)] x 1.265 = 600.875

Base Accuracy = 350

+10% for maxed marksman skill
+25% for "D" series Accuracy Ammo

350 x 1.35 = Max Accuracy


Max Accuracy = 472.5
__________________________________________________ ___________

LINES

Base Avoidance = 50
Level 1 RCS = 30

Level 10 RCS = 60

Level 15 RCS = 72
(or 144% of Base Avoidance)

+10% Skill Bonus

+11% Buff Bonus (lvl 15)

3 Duct Max Avoidance = [50 + (3 x 72)] x 1.21 = 316

5 Duct Max Avoidance =
[70 + (5 x 72)] x 1.21 = 520.3

Base Accuracy = 125
+10% for maxed marksman skill
+25% for "D" series Accuracy Ammo

400 x 1.35 = Max Accuracy


Max Accuracy = 168.75

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

From a purely numbers stand point, there shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind that the dynamics between ships, avoidance, and accuracy are totally broken.

- The accuracy of Escort vs. Strike guns are relatively close. Escort guns are 87.5% as accurate as strike guns. When +25% accuracy ammo is used, the modified accuracy of escort guns exceeds the basic accuracy of strike guns.

- The close accuracy relationship of escort & strike guns explains why strikes are particularly susceptible to escort guns. They are almost as good and in some cases better than the in-class strike guns.

- Here is the description of RCS Ducting: "Temporarily increases control system responsiveness to allow for extreme evasion actions." As you can see, the paradigm is BACKWARDS in how RCS is applied to Strikes/Escorts/Lines. The smallest, fastest, and most maneuverable get up to 7.05% avoidance bonus (per RCS duct), while the largest, slowest, and least maneuverable ships get a disproportionately high 144% avoidance (per RCS duct).

As the numbers demonstrate...there is no mystery as to why the avoidance and accuracy mechanics are such a problem - this is a totally broke system.

__________________
NAME - Deviltron
SERVER - Aquaria
USER ID - 554508



To learn more about how much BGO Costs you $$$$$ http://en.board.bigpoint.com/bsgo/showthread.php?t=537981

Last edited by Deviltron1 : 09.04.2013 at 02:40.
Deviltron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 07:19   #2
zatoichimk2
Forum Freak
 
zatoichimk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: 24.09.2011
Posts: 3694
Default

I have one thing to say. ABSOBLOODYLUTELY
__________________

goodbye...ps,call me if update 17s watercap gets reversed XD
zatoichimk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 07:30   #3
Lubba
Padavan
 
Join Date: 28.10.2011
Posts: 206
Default

Quote:
STRIKES
Base Avoidance = 510
Level 1 RCS = 15

Level 10 RCS = 30

Level 15 RCS = 36
(or 7.05% of Base Avoidance)
Base Accuracy = 400


ESCORTS
Base Avoidance = 250
Level 1 RCS = 17.50

Level 10 RCS = 35

Level 15 RCS = 42
(or 16.8% of Base Avoidance)
Base Accuracy = 350


LINES
Base Avoidance = 50
Level 1 RCS = 30

Level 10 RCS = 60

Level 15 RCS = 72
(or 144% of Base Avoidance)
Base Accuracy = 125


So, accuracy for strikes with tylium ammo (A-grade accuracy) is 484.

Accuracy for escorts with tylium ammo (A-grade accuracy) is 423.5.
Accuracy for escorts with cubit ammo (D-grade accuracy) is 481.5.

Plus escort has two guns more.

Lets use multis:
Full avoidance for strike: 679.8 (+buff)_________Base acc: 440______Acc/avo: 64.7%
Full avoidance for escort: 413.6 (+buff)________Base acc: 385______Acc/avo: 93%
Full avoidance for line: 292.6 (+buff)___________Base acc: 137.5____Acc/avo: 47%

Avoidance on escort/strike: 60,8%
Accuracy on escort/strike: 87.5%
Acc/avo on escort/strike: 56.6%

Avoidance on line/escort: 70.7%
Accuracy on line/escort: 35.7%
Acc/avo on line/escort: 33.2%

Avoidance on line/strike: 43%
Accuracy on line/strike: 31.3%
Acc/avo on line/strike: 20.2%

So, frankly, the stats are fracked up. Escorts seems to be the ultimate weapon versus everything stats-wise. Escorts have better chance of hitting a strike than a line hitting another line. Also, Escorts are getting less hits than any other class in the game anti-class wise.
Only strike vs. line beats it (33.2% vs 20.2%). It seems that the true anti-class for escort is another escort.

Furthermore, lines get 10% units more benefit from RCS than strikes compared to escorts. Actually, strikes has barely double the avoidance of line. Lines avoidance actually goes higher than base avoidance of an escort. Also, the accuracy is ridiculously close between strikes and escorts. If you would include that ridiculous math to also line vs. escort, lines should have accuracy of ~337 to be as efficient versus escorts than escorts are versus strikes.
__________________
Col nub from Canceron

Last edited by Lubba : 08.04.2013 at 07:33.
Lubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 13:05   #4
--Therapist--
Forum-Greenhorn
 
Join Date: 20.08.2012
Posts: 11
Default

How much does that strike RCS pack take, cubit wise, to boost it up to lvl 15?

How much does it take for a line RCS pack take, cubit wise, to boost it up to lvl 15?






I don't like avoidance ships either... So now i'm flying a missilebanshee. I'm faster than most strikes, and the avoidance is moot.
--Therapist-- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 13:25   #5
Lubba
Padavan
 
Join Date: 28.10.2011
Posts: 206
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by --Therapist-- View Post
How much does that strike RCS pack take, cubit wise, to boost it up to lvl 15?

How much does it take for a line RCS pack take, cubit wise, to boost it up to lvl 15?






I don't like avoidance ships either... So now i'm flying a missilebanshee. I'm faster than most strikes, and the avoidance is moot.

It's irrelevant as the other engine parts takes the same amount of cubits (and for your questions, the answer is 2.5 times more). Just the fact that line does get huge bonus out of ONE spesific engine part brakes the mechanics of the game. You realize how much benefit a line gets versus another line by just installing few RCS ducts? Same goes with the other classes, RCS does get too big benefit compared to other engine parts.
__________________
Col nub from Canceron
Lubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 14:13   #6
gssholly
All knowing Oracle
 
gssholly's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01.06.2011
Posts: 5339
Default

saying it for close to what 6 months now that avoidance vs accuracy is broken?

Not trying to toot my own horn here, but I've been harping on this for AGES. Whole damn game needs to be taken back to beta and overhauled.

It's the only solution that will fix this frakkin mess.
__________________

Nothing's difficult, everything's a challenge. Thru adversity, to the stars!
To the last plane, to the last bullet, to the last minute, to the last man!
WE FIGHT! -Red tails
gssholly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 15:02   #7
Grainger64
Advanced
 
Join Date: 27.05.2012
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviltron1 View Post
There are a lot of opinions on "Avoidance" and it's counterpart "Accuracy" but there hasn't been many facts presented about the mechanics of these very controversial components of game dynamics.

For this discussion we'll baseline the stats for the merit multi-roles because they should in theory represent the average ship in their class.

[...]

From a purely numbers stand point, there shouldn't be any doubt in anyone's mind that the dynamics between ships, avoidance, and accuracy are totally broken.

- The accuracy of Escort vs. Strike guns are relatively close. Escort guns are 87.5% as accurate as strike guns. When +25% accuracy ammo is used, the modified accuracy of escort guns exceeds the basic accuracy of strike guns.

- The close accuracy relationship of escort & strike guns explains why strikes are particularly susceptible to escort guns. They are almost as good and in some cases better than the in-class strike guns.

- Here is the description of RCS Ducting: "Temporarily increases control system responsiveness to allow for extreme evasion actions." As you can see, the paradigm is BACKWARDS in how RCS is applied to Strikes/Escorts/Lines. The smallest, fastest, and most maneuverable get up to 7.05% avoidance bonus (per RCS duct), while the largest, slowest, and least maneuverable ships get a disproportionately high 144% avoidance (per RCS duct).

As the numbers demonstrate...there is no mystery as to why the avoidance and accuracy mechanics are such a problem - this is a totally broke system.

Given, the numbers look weird - but numbers only tell half of the story unless there's any explanation about how they relate to each other, i.e. for example a formula about what a certain accuracy value means when encountering a specific avoidance value.

Having said that, the whole accuracy/ avoidance matter seems like roulette recently - the player you shot down quite comfortably last time appears to be invulnerable next system/ next hour/ next day.

If you just look at the numbers you might have a difficult time explaining what happened to me some days ago:

A colonial Viper MK VII was attacking a Liche close to my Liche - while doing so he was inside optimal range of my guns (2 SR + 1/2 MR, all lvl 10) - I debuffed the strike with a lvl 9 avoidance hack and a lvl 8 speed hack and used Tylium grade accuracy ammo on him. He killed off the other Liche, turned towards me and killed me off too (by then with the help of at least 1 other strike), while according to the damage log (open during the whole time) I was only able to hit him 4-5 times during the whole engagement, including the time he was busy blindspotting the other Liche.
As far as I could see he was NOT under avoidance buff or fired any DC packs, still he was only missing ~200 HP while 2 advanced Liches were gone.

That's surely an extreme example, but by no means a unique one. I don't mind getting killed there but I have no explanation as to how he got out there with only minor abrasions.

Would there been no hits at all or insta-repair after each hit I'd be willing to suspect a cheat (I've encountered both).

There seem to be days when accuracy and avoidance is all over the board, low lvl lines hitting your escort with 2 RCS engines at maximum range at ease and other days when you feel nearly invulnerable. I've been playing this game for nearly 2 years now, so I like to believe I developed a certain feeling for unusual patterns and I've encountered most avoidance issues due to bugs (negative avoidance after being killed while debuffed, wrong values after changing engines layout etc...).
I've never encountered fluctuations like during these last few weeks before, and according to my wingmates on TS I'm not the only one.

Btw: my internet connection is 32mBit and my pings, though not great, average about 25ms (according to a gadget showing me recent ping history).
__________________
SoulCatcher - Canceron
Grainger64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08.04.2013, 23:02   #8
Deviltron1
Old Hand
 
Join Date: 17.06.2012
Posts: 596
Default

Grainger64 - You're right, "Avoidance" and "Accuracy" are only part of the big picture combat mechanics of BGO. But I think it's more productive to have discussions on specific stats because the combination of all the varibles when considered can be a little overwhelming.

Talon - I don't think we need to throw out the baby with the bath water here. Yes, these mechanics are broke but they can also be fixed. The numbers clearly indicate where the problems are and they also substanciate player concerns. In short, fix the numbers and the problem gets fixed. Now that's not to say that fixing Avoidance/Accuracy is a magic bullet - it isn't, but it's a step in the right direction. Some other issues that need to be faxed as well are:

- Speed & Effective Range Mechanics

- Armor & Armor Piercing Mechanics

- Power & Power Regen

- Base Stats associated with Ship Roles

and I am sure there are about another 10 or so other issues that could be improved on....

*I'll fill in some more stat information on the OP later tonight....

Here's a question for the sake of discussion:

Should a ship's "Accuracy" and "Avoidance" be roughly equal?

EXAMPLE

Strike Av/Acc = 500

Escort Av/Acc = 250 (50% of Strike)

Line Av/Acc = 125 (50% of Escort)
__________________
NAME - Deviltron
SERVER - Aquaria
USER ID - 554508



To learn more about how much BGO Costs you $$$$$ http://en.board.bigpoint.com/bsgo/showthread.php?t=537981
Deviltron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09.04.2013, 00:55   #9
Kinon
Count Count
 
Join Date: 24.08.2011
Posts: 1213
Default

i dont think accuracy and avoid should not be equal, they should be scaled with dmg and ship size. to promote good game play lines guns that hit hardest shouldnt hit every time, but strike guns shouldnt be hitting for major dmg either. avoidance should be based of ship speed and size ( smaller faster targets should be harder to hit, try shooting a rifle at a thrown baseball vrs shooting at small car ). The problem with the game is accuracy/avoidance doesnt really scale. i personaly think they should go back to the old grey/green/red ammo and place a soft cap on avoidance with diminishing returns.
__________________
[IMG][/IMG]
Kinon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09.04.2013, 01:53   #10
Deviltron1
Old Hand
 
Join Date: 17.06.2012
Posts: 596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinon View Post
i dont think accuracy and avoid should not be equal, they should be scaled with dmg and ship size. to promote good game play lines guns that hit hardest shouldnt hit every time, but strike guns shouldnt be hitting for major dmg either. avoidance should be based of ship speed and size ( smaller faster targets should be harder to hit, try shooting a rifle at a thrown baseball vrs shooting at small car ). The problem with the game is accuracy/avoidance doesnt really scale. i personaly think they should go back to the old grey/green/red ammo and place a soft cap on avoidance with diminishing returns.
Maybe I wasn't clear, let me clarify the question:

Should a "Accuracy" and "Avoidance" within the same class be roughly equal? (some avoidance variation may exist in ship "Roles")

EXAMPLE

Strike Av/Acc = 500/500

Escort Av/Acc = 250/250 (50% of Strike)

Line Av/Acc = 125/125 (50% of Escort)


So, yes, there should be a difference in Av/Acc between classes, but I think there is some value for ships within the same class having Av/Acc metrics roughly equal.

The 50% relationship can be considered an arbitrary set of figures....but it is interesting to note that there seems to be a similar pattern within the existing ship classes presently.
__________________
NAME - Deviltron
SERVER - Aquaria
USER ID - 554508



To learn more about how much BGO Costs you $$$$$ http://en.board.bigpoint.com/bsgo/showthread.php?t=537981
Deviltron1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:15.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.