What is point in these tactics?

[VerinJadduk]

@ Pepper

"While alot of what I see on the blue side is play for self. If you want someone to follow on your side I suggest you talk to Ozzie. He's a great leader and if a faction switch ever happens I hope he comes to the dark side. He is one of the few players I see on your side that is all about developing others before himself. Ozzie much respect and if your reading this I hope you can assist this player that is truly asking the right questions and not necessarily being informed accurately by his own side. __________________
PepperPots
Caprica"

I will pass this along to Ozzie. I am sure he will appreciate the recognition of his efforts.

Verin

[jellyb]

Originally Posted by Paradox3713

For the record we are winning the war on Terror, especially where Afghanistan is concerned. Proof of it is the draw down of our forces that is ramping up and the fact that Pakistan is being more resistant to playing nice. Proof is also in the way the Government are trying to get rid of people now. Even to the point of shrinking the Guard/Reserve forces. But I will say this. The only way we could possibly lose the war not is if the UAV missions were to stop.

Got a problem? DRONE IT! HA HA HA HA HA!

Kinda hard to "win" that war when we ARE the terrorists.

Number of people killed; number of civilians killed; number of countries occupied. Any way you roll it.

[jellyb]

Originally Posted by cprstupid

This is back on topic as I have no idea what happens on any server mostly but for mine. Now your two questions apply here also. As to the first in gen on our server we do ok waiting for ops to go up. Main reason is so many to scard to go out unless in a Zerg of 80 ships or more lol. That is just part of our server culture. Also we do use transponders some but cylons do it more. I think like many it is a numbers issue and the fact the game is the reverse of the show. Humans were about wiped out period yet in game we have really listened to roseolen and had babies lol. The lesser numbered force will almost always go for hit and run and inovation while a large one will go with some type of cannon/traditional stratagy. It's just a military fact which is based in both human traits and evolution. It's why cylons on all servers tend to work they way they do. When they can zerg they will, but mostly they can't. So that is why in general.

The pop and op all the time is greed most likly.

Lastly, few peole that play this game have any real training in combat. It's played like a game which it is. So you get stupid self centered stuff happening all the time lol. Cylons do better for the above reasons. It's just natural as most hit and run groups just form. Think of new caprica and Sam on caprica. Zipola tranning but got better and better at hit and run.

If the game mechanics change for real stratagy it will be a shock to both sides. As is if colonial knew what they were doing most servers would be blue all day. I am glad they don't because many think that is winning when it would just hurt the game.

If the game ever forces players to make real choices well IMHO cylons will adapt to it first. But for a few weeks most will just try to do what they have been doing. WWI example lol.

Hope that helps you with your questions.

This is a pretty clear observation from a colonial.

Typically, they are unable (or simply unwilling) to admit the numbers advantage.

The behavior observation is a key one. Cols kept Aerilon beat down for months on end but somehow the server survived. Then suddenly the tide started turning and it was hard to keep the cylons from returning the favor - not all day, but during prime time at least. The result was the server basically self-destructed. Gameplay went all to hell, cols quit, cylons quit and now it's a ghost town.

It's hard to pinpoint what exactly caused it, but I knew when it was happening that it wasn't going to end well.

The only comparable behavior I've seen on Scorpia is when groups of high level col lines comes into a system, burns through DC packs and keeps transpondering people back into the fight. Valid tactics yes, but it's intentionally obnoxious. Then the comments come... about how they wish they had more of a challenge, or how someone would have to nuke them to kill them. Who are they kidding. If they wanted a fair fight they would have bought a used motorcycle instead of a virtual spaceship. Play how you want, but don't be surprised if you end up playing by yourself if you do it too much.

[INFURNACE]

Originally Posted by DeadSandstorm

The colonials don't want to see anything red on the map at all. You guys have the numbers to wipe out any OP we put up or any mine. You guys want full control of the map and you usually receive it.

About the second part is the same answer as the first you have the numbers to not care about transponders. We use transponders to get in and take a OP out quick before the blue tsunami can jump in and beat back our small force. A Blue OP raiding party is usually atleast 2 full squads. That means two people have to have the certain computer to jump. Some people just don't want to waste the time in doing that. If you want to see them used I happily invite you to come to the cylons where we use those guerrilla tactics.

good point.........why is your fenrir filled with hey?

[sunruy]

Originally Posted by PepperPots

This is pretty much spot on. As far as Kingfish's assertion there is infighting on the cylon side on Caprica. I would say that it is very rare. In fact when issues have arisen they have tended to be amoungst prior colonial players that have transferred and have ill will toward another prior colonial. These issues have been all but put to rest as we haven't had a transfer in a long time. I suggest if Kingfish tries to tell you differently you log onto a Cylon account and see the difference for yourself. While King asserts we sacrafice our noobs. I suggest you watch the next fleet battle and see how many of your so called elite hang in the back at long range while your lower levels form a barrier between them and the battle. In fact your side had a big blow out about it the other day. If you read a post by Frank_the_Duck you will see one of what I have been told is a daily issue. But hey you know as you have already commented about the infighting on your side. Cylons are to few to be infighting. Thats why we are able to accomplish so much with so little. It's called team work and self sacrafice. While alot of what I see on the blue side is play for self. If you want someone to follow on your side I suggest you talk to Ozzie. He's a great leader and if a faction switch ever happens I hope he comes to the dark side. He is one of the few players I see on your side that is all about developing others before himself. Ozzie much respect and if your reading this I hope you can assist this player that is truly asking the right questions and not necessarily being informed accurately by his own side.

I agree with you on what you said here. I do have a lvl 10-15 cylon that i have not played in a long time. I know there is in house bickering going on but when it is time to fight i have seen the bickering stop and the cylons come together. I know that DM (that is or was your wing about 6 months) had problems with other wings but when it was time to fight you and them was side by side fighting. Pepper hun, you have always been a cool person to me and i still remember oweing you that Tit. plat. even though you told me not to worry about it.

You are very correct i have seen many on the Colonial side be very selfish. I can ask for help yes 3 people come they help clear the system and then leave and then the problem comtinues. Or i get a whisper saying sorry am on a mine and cant come. While on the cylon side i have experienced that when i have asked for help 10 come clear the system and stay till the job is done and i am able to move on. I see the cylons get off of their mines stop dailies just to come help. They Fly by me and keep all npc and pvp away. I have seen and heard in fleet chats high lvls killing lowbies. On the Colonial side yes the high lvls come to take the high lvls then leave the lowbies to themselves. On the cylon side they come and then take the lowbies under their wing fly around with them help them with info, getting supplies and so on. Seen it and experienced it many times. That might just be due to the lower numbers on the cylon side that everyone says that is there or for another reason.

[sunruy]

Sorry if I came across wrong with the Transponder thing. I do not mean for the Colonials to use them all the time every OP roll or every fleet battle. Like there is plenty of times i have seen and been apart of the yo-yo effect fleet battles. Meaning: Colonials are doing OP roll and then we hit hard defense from the cylons and they push us back to our OP and then we do the same back. This goes on for hours many times. Maybe not lately since i have not played to much in the last 3 months. When we have the Yo-yo effect going on why not pull out the Transponders use it to break through. Or another example during big fleet battles where there is no give or take just Transponder to another system and by pass the fleet and start from there. I have seen the cylons do that many times and i tell you it works. If you want to OP roll then OP roll get it done. It is a tactic that i call "Take the Head and Watch the Body Fall". The Cylons use this tactic some to most of the times. Instead of going for the pvp they go straight for the OP (which is the head) and then take out the pvp (which is the body). That is a tactic that the armed forces use.

I do not want to dominate the server and i love seeing the cylons have some control of the map and i am one of the few Colonials that does not think that if you are red you are dead or you are blue you are through.

Back to a reply i got. Cornwallis was already defeated before the French army showed up. They showed up in the last 6 months of the war. That is why he was pulling back to the sea. We kicked his rump with our local Militia arm that used guerrilla tactics. We was losing the war till we got Militia. We was losing the war till Washington crossed the Delaware. That was the Very first fight we won in that war and the war was already going on for a few years by that time. The only reason for that win was the guerrilla tactic that Washington did by hitting them at just before day break. The Militia knew the area they was fighting in cause that was their home while the regular army came from all over and did not know the land and fought face to face and lost most if not all their battles against the English.

We took ten years to get Bin oh boy. They used Guerrilla tactics for that long to keep ole bin boy alive. WE still have terrorists. We will never win that war. There has been terrorist from the beginning of time and there will be terrorist to the end of time. This is a no win war.

[gssholly]

Originally Posted by jellyb

This is a pretty clear observation from a colonial.

Typically, they are unable (or simply unwilling) to admit the numbers advantage.

The behavior observation is a key one. Cols kept Aerilon beat down for months on end but somehow the server survived. Then suddenly the tide started turning and it was hard to keep the cylons from returning the favor - not all day, but during prime time at least. The result was the server basically self-destructed. Gameplay went all to hell, cols quit, cylons quit and now it's a ghost town.

It's hard to pinpoint what exactly caused it, but I knew when it was happening that it wasn't going to end well.

The only comparable behavior I've seen on Scorpia is when groups of high level col lines comes into a system, burns through DC packs and keeps transpondering people back into the fight. Valid tactics yes, but it's intentionally obnoxious. Then the comments come... about how they wish they had more of a challenge, or how someone would have to nuke them to kill them. Who are they kidding. If they wanted a fair fight they would have bought a used motorcycle instead of a virtual spaceship. Play how you want, but don't be surprised if you end up playing by yourself if you do it too much.

Actually these tactics were copied from a cylon wing AKA USSR and now it's going tit for tat about the tactics.

Frankly this is why i don't even bother really with OP runs unless my wing leader calls us into action, or if i am on defense and want some kills.

Frankly i have more fun just going on search and destroy fights or big furballs in the middle of the system.

Op runs frankly bore me. Haven't been on one in MONTHS.

[Aean]

Couple things:

First - usually I DON'T see people on either side trying to take down OPs as soon as they pop up, unless it's the continuation of an already ongoing OP-roll. So if a fleet just took down Calibaan, and they open their maps and find an OP in 82, they'll hit 82. On the other hand, if there's no fleet out there, I almost never see people call for the formation of a fleet to take down the newly-popped OP. That being said, there ARE people on BOTH sides who take the "war" aspect of the game far too seriously, and insist on trying to down every enemy, every mine, every OP, and camping every system. That being said, I've seen the map so ridiculously blue OR red, even at prime-time, to deny that it happens.

Second - with regards to beacons, they get used by both sides, generally when the other faction has overwhelming numbers online. I've seen the cylons use them when a huge colonial fleet is rolling, and I've seen colonials use them when there's no other way to deal with the horde of cylons between them and the OP. I've seen colonials set defenses against beacon-drops, and I've seen cylons do it. More often than not, though, I see it being done specifically by wings, where a wing will put together a beacon squad and hit as many OPs as they can. Both sides will do it to hit a heavily defended OP, and both sides will do it to hit a relatively undefended OP before their opponents can bring in too many reinforcements.

Third - everyone, PLEASE stop bringing political slants into this. Not only will it get the thread closed, but it's embarrassing to have to read this crap.

Originally Posted by sunruy

You are very correct i have seen many on the Colonial side be very selfish. I can ask for help yes 3 people come they help clear the system and then leave and then the problem comtinues. Or i get a whisper saying sorry am on a mine and cant come. While on the cylon side i have experienced that when i have asked for help 10 come clear the system and stay till the job is done and i am able to move on. I see the cylons get off of their mines stop dailies just to come help. They Fly by me and keep all npc and pvp away. I have seen and heard in fleet chats high lvls killing lowbies. On the Colonial side yes the high lvls come to take the high lvls then leave the lowbies to themselves. On the cylon side they come and then take the lowbies under their wing fly around with them help them with info, getting supplies and so on. Seen it and experienced it many times. That might just be due to the lower numbers on the cylon side that everyone says that is there or for another reason.

And as for this...I admit, I only have a colonial account, and on Scorpia...but I see it on both sides. I see forces - whether cylon or colonial - come into a system and take down the OP, or harass the nuggets, even forces that could be repelled JUST by the players already IN the system. Sometimes I see players come swarming down off their mines, and what must have looked like an easy OP to kill suddenly has a formidable defense force - all the more so with the response to fleet messages. And I can't speak for the cylon side, but on the colonial side I almost always DO see people coming to help. Often they're some of the SAME people, but there's usually a response. If someone sends out a fleet message that a system is camped, you'll find players either at the nearest OP or the nearest system preparing to break the camp. If I see a fleetcom saying that there are seal clubbers in a system, usually even if I jump there as fast as I can, there are already several high-level players heading towards the PVP, and often the enemy has already been eliminated.

And with regards to getting people to help...honestly - and this may be rude of me to say - often it seems like it depends on whether people know, trust, respect, etc. the person making the call. So when one of our highly-respected players simply fleets "Calibaan must fall," a fleet assembles to take it down; when the same person says "We need help in Kryphon," or something similar, it happens. When someone no one's ever heard of does the same thing, maybe a fleet forms, maybe not. When someone calls for help defending an OP, it helps if you haven't sent fleetcoms about a "massive fleet" every time three PvPs jump in, or if people know who you are, and that you'll fight. And yes, we do get the people who assume that two low-level lines, and a lvl 10 escort count as an OP-busting fleet. I assume you see them too.

I've sent a few OP-defense calls out in the past couple days, and gotten numerous whispered responses from players who dropped everything to come help, and gotten both my wing and some of the other large wings responding - a turnout far greater than I expected, since I'm certainly not a respected icon or pillar of the community. As for taking down seal-clubbers...I almost always see a turnout, whoever calls, since it's often the nuggets calling, or the single mid-level in system who sees what's going on, but knows (s)he can't take the enemy alone. And given that I see several of the better colonial wings offering ship-specific and general nugget training to all comers, and that I've seen countless high-level colonials willing to sacrifice themselves to help out...gonna have to disagree with you in terms of selfishness.

Yes, there are times when people call for help, and no one comes. Yes, there are times when people sit by and do nothing while you're overrun and killed. But I'd say that there's a lot of good there too...and that if there is an issue I'd be willing to bet, both from what I've seen and from basic human nature, that it's as much a colonial problem as it is a cylon one.

[zatoichimk2]

Originally Posted by sunruy

. I see many people on all day long but you know what i see them doing is just pvp hunting. Yeah with doing that you wont be bringing home much cubits if any. Yeah i know this is a pvp game but it is much more than that. It is a well balanced game. Maybe you need to do more water hunting than Pvp hunting so 3,000 cubits is not that hard to use for 10 transponders. Then again it is your game and you play as you want to play your game. I just wish we could use them more often.

This is where i'd differ with some of you.The game is not well balanced,no one gets rewarded for pvping in this pvp game,and the only currency you can get out of pvp is given away like candy in op busts.Aka merits.